feedback, please ( also )

[Ross K.]

For some reason this post feels a bit like plagiarism... but also a good idea, so here goes--

I also got cut today from the Amazon contest and am also hoping to improve.
If it's not too much trouble, would you be able to look over my panels and make some suggestions, both general and specific if possible?
Thanks!
You can access my comics here (on my website)

[Malc]

I like your style of humour a lot. Many new cartoonists try to do oblique material but it comes off as sophomoric or just plain unfunny. I think you have a great deal of potential. It may be that your so-bad-it's-good drawing style turns some traditionally-minded people off. Personally I like it, though it falls down when you have to draw non-organic things like trucks and trailers.

Don't put much store into contests, they're never a good indicator of anything, I've judged a few in my time and the backstage dealing and the sheer stupidity have to be seen to be believed.

Don't lose the spontaneity in your drawing, but (as I said to another young aspirant) try to formularize your figures and backgrounds so that every panel you draw isn't the equivalent to starting from scratch. It quickly becomes an exercise in total frustration as you reject character after character. Your humour is the thing. Yes, your drawing is interesting, but cartooning is essentially about writing. Look at Quentin Blake's work and see how a totally loose style can be knockout.

[Joshua Skurtu]

Apparently it's "REVIEW MY COMIC DAY!"

I like reading new comics!

Here is my review:

That's some funny stuff. I'll never look at a panda the same way again.

Most of them got a chuckle out of me and a few got a deep belly laugh. Unfortunately for you, you are doing a panel, and Editors hate panels, because they have to move stuff around to fit them.

Some of the jokes(only a few), though, felt like old ones, such as the helium truck and the green grass one. In my young eyes, they might have been funny 50 years ago, but now it gets more of a nod of the head from me, indicating,"Yes, that is a joke." :-)

Also, I didn't get the Jealousy Support group one until I re-read it a second ago. The banner was offset, so I ignored it as background dressing. I would put the name of the support group in a caption under it and make sure it is big enough to catch your eye.

Overall: Awesome. :)

Keep up the good work.

-Josh
www.theohnozone.com

[ChelseaBritain]

Hi Ross,

Overall, I really like your work. It looks like you've got a unique perspective on things and that translates into some really funny stuff. If I had to guess, I would say the issue is consistency. Some of these cartoons are hilarious, but some of them kind of fall flat. For example, I think the gags in 1,3,4,8,9 and 11 (going from top to bottom, left to right) are really good and the others just don't measure up to those strips. That's not to say they're bad - it's just that they're not as good as the others.

I think consistency in drawing is also important. I think you've got a definite look for the way you draw people, but perhaps if you figured out a way to draw animals, trucks, etc. in a similar style, you'd achieve more of an overall "Ross" look and feel. If you see a Gary Larson bug or a Gary Larson house, you immediately know who drew it. There's just a similar look and feel to everything.

A few of these (for example, 4, 11 and 12) look like that want to be multi-panel gags instead of single panels. The jokes still work but I just think they'd be better served with the delayed punchline of multiple panels. They're good jokes though.

I think if you refined these a little bit and wrote some new gags for some of them you'd have a shot at doing well. However, I'm just an aspiring cartoonist too, so I might not be the best person to be giving out criticisms.

Good luck!

[guy]

I like the writing and the art quite a bit. And, like Josh pointed out, the fact that it's another square panel may have been a turn-off to the editors. An easy way to get around that and still keep it a panel is to modify everything to fit into a traditional sized space without the separations. In other words, short and long. I wouldn't worry about the contest too much. I can't think of a single successful cartoonist who made it big because of a contest. best of luck.
Guy~

[ChelseaBritain]

Yeah, that's a good point about modifying the panel size. "Rhymes with Orange" does that.

[Rod McKie]

I agree, this is some very funny stuff. I think you could team up with a couple of cartoonists if you can knock these things out, as a means of making money while you place this panel. The horrible thing is, we cartoonists have no idea what is funny, or lets face it we would sell more than the 10% of cartoons we sell. So cartoonists finding your work funny doesn't help get the things into the hands of a cartoon editor; more's the pity.

It's shit pay but I think you could sell a lot of them to The Funny Times, it's their kind of humour - I think. Personally, I think you might try making some mini-comics and try some indie publications because that would spread your name around and maybe get you into some anthologies. Have you seen the work of Marc Johs and the way he shifts some of his stuff? There is more than one way to skin a cat.

http://shop.marcjohns.com/

[Ross K.]

Hey everyone-- thanks so much for the advice and comments. I really appreciate it.

Malc-- You nailed several problems I have with drawing comics ( non-organic objects, spending a lot of time just trying to decide on what the characters will look like ). Getting the art to a point where it's a reliable vehicle for the content is something I really have to do. Right now I'm trying to stumble upon a style through the process of drawing the comics. It's a lot of fun to draw them, but, yeah, it takes me awhile and most of the time I look back at my previous drawings somewhat grudgingly. Is this a good way to develop the style, or is working out the style separate and before the comic a better idea?
I love Quentin Blake's work and I'll try to study it more closely for some info.

Josh-- For the helium-truck comic-- is it the idea behind it that feels oldish or the way the joke is told? In the final I phrased the joke in kinda a detached but straightforward way. Before that, I had thought about using the helium-truck as the punchline in a situation about some truckers. Would that have maybe been better?
as for the Jealousy Support group one-- shoot, I think you're right. Putting the words in the caption is a little more clear, but also the reading order of the lines works better. ( does everyone generally read the caption last? )

Chelsea-- "If you see a Gary Larson bug or a Gary Larson house, you immediately know who drew it."-- Well, either Gary Larson... or me trying to copy Gary Larson when I first started trying to draw comics :D
Good point about the jokes better served by multi-panel.

Guy-- I've thought about the "F-Minus" or "Rhymes With Orange" style layout a bit. It's an interesting option. I'm most fond of the idea of a flexible size to fit whatever the content demands. This works well in certain cases, but I'm a little scared of the cases where it doesn't work.

Rod-- "The horrible thing is, we cartoonists have no idea what is funny"-- I know this is true, but it would be great if there was someway to figure it out. I'm not sure if I want AI to solve this problem.
I just checked out the Funny Times-- I'll look into sending them some stuff sometime. I'll also think about writing up some mini-comics-- it sounds fun. No, I hadn't seen Marc Johns work, but I have now-- wow, really good.


Thanks again everyone for the help!

[Joshua Skurtu]

"Josh-- For the helium-truck comic-- is it the idea behind it that feels oldish or the way the joke is told? In the final I phrased the joke in kinda a detached but straightforward way. Before that, I had thought about using the helium-truck as the punchline in a situation about some truckers. Would that have maybe been better?
as for the Jealousy Support group one-- shoot, I think you're right. Putting the words in the caption is a little more clear, but also the reading order of the lines works better. ( does everyone generally read the caption last? "

It is not the way the jokes are displayed, but the age of the jokes. It's an old joke, made when helium was first popular. I think I even remember an old cartoon that had a helium filled truck float away. A lot of your other jokes feel original and innovative. It's just a handful that feel like they are old. For instance, the grass is greener on the other side. That is an OLD expression, and I have heard that joke or a similar joke hundreds of times. It's hard to take something that old and not expect someone to have done the same thing with it.

As for reading the caption last, yes. I read them last. But it might be better that way, as it hides the punchline. For now, though, move on to new panels and new jokes. Keep em going. Good luck.

-Josh
www.theohnozone.com

[Ross K.]

hmmm... maybe I can replace the truck with a helium-transport-Segway ( or hoverbike ) to bring it into modern times...

Thanks again Josh!

[Lee Nordling]

Hey, Ross K.

First, I REALLY liked your cartoons. I think they felt more like greeting cards (in a good way) than a themed wacky panel, which is what I think you intended.

Some of them were REALLY quite clever and funny, and I liked your "attitude" in them.

Your line work is deceptively simple, but I think anybody with a practiced, discerning eye will pick that up.

Your lettering is deceptively childish, but it REALLY works well with your drawing style.

Your balloons are deceptively awkward, looking more like something drawn at the beginning of the last century...

...but like the rest of it: you are OBVIOUSLY crafting with intention.

So, I SEE what you're doing; I LIKE what you're doing; and I think the ONLY thing lacking was cohesion behind a concept.

Whether you can bring all the elements that are working into something with cohesion, like a Cul De Sac or a Far Side, is yet to be seen--wacky single panels are a tough breed in any case--and the germinated seed of one isn't yet obvious or apparent in the samples.

In addition to whatever you want to do for strips, you ought to consider greeting cards and magazine cartooning, not that the latter is a thriving business right now, either.

A concept book, like Diary of a Wimpy Kid, might be in your range, too.

I wouldn't worry about being left out of the Amazon Party, though, because you were bringing a pie to a fist fight; it didn't really fit the need.

--Lee

[Ross K.]

Hey Lee,
Thanks for the advice and comments. I guess, personally, I would say that my drawings are simple, lettering is childish, and balloons are awkward. I really like the inclusion of the word "deceptively," though, so I'm not going to argue. You're very convincing :)
I agree about the lack of cohesion. Somewhat similar to the question I asked in the last post-- is cohesion something that'll eventually arise from the process of creating ideas, or should I be consciously trying to tie together the work? Also, is the cohesion and drawing style something I should have almost fully developed before I try to put any work out to market? Is there a risk of harm in releasing "immature" work? Or is that a good motivation to develop quickly?
Sorry for all the questions,
Thanks again for the help!

[Lee Nordling]

If you're looking to do a daily strip, find SOME way to consciously pull it together.

Some people do it on purpose, some people do it intuitively. Since "intuitively" isn't working for you (yet), try "on purpose," realizing that it will define the universe/sandbox in which you'll be playing for a LONG time.

Too many cartoonists don't build very good/flexible sandboxes.

Wiley's got four or five strips going in his own strip; it's evolved over time, and I wouldn't recommend trying it from scratch.

Some folks will tell you that wacky panels are harder to sell, and they're right.

Other folks will tell you that certain genre strips are jam-packed to the ceiling, that there isn't much room (if any) for more, and they're right.

I say that if you produce something that is simply brilliant, regardless of format or genre, that, providing it IS suitable for and accessible by a newspaper readership, you've got your best chance of selling.

Example? Cul de Sac.

Ask somebody whether an offbeat strip about a group of kids living in the same neighborhood will have a chance, and most would've told you (rightfully) that kid strips are jammed up.

Find your BEST sandbox, and play in it.

--Lee